They Like Jesus but Not the Church

Just a few notes about some things I'm digging into as of late.

I could write pages and pages and get off on 500 tangents about different issues and questions and answers in all of this, but rather than try to articulate what I'm thinking and feeling...I just wanna get down my initial thoughts.

I took a class on Postmodernism this semester and read some great books on emerging generations and how our culture is changing. One of the less scholarly, but most compelling of these books was They Like Jesus But Not The Church by Dan Kimball. And recently, I picked up a copy of Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell. Both books have raised some good points and questions about my generation and my faith...and made challenges to how we are to go about combining the two in a way that really works and makes sense.

This is something I'm really concerned with. The methods of evangelism my grandparents used, doesn't work very well on people my age. I wonder if older people in churches can't see that? Many of the older people in churches, were younger people once, frustrated with the older people in the church that wouldn't allow growth or good change to happen in their congregations (such as in worship music, etc.) Are they becoming the same but a new generation? Are we praying and asking for growth and change while they do the same old same old and ignore it when it doesn't work?

Dan Kimball points out that most churches don't have a very large group of people in their 20s. No one seems to care, or at any rate really notice that this age group is missing. You have high school age and children, and you have their parents and other adults. Where are these emerging generations going? Is this normal? Do they come back when they're older? I'm starting to lean towards the fact that they don't. In fact the Church doesn't have the best reputation with emerging generations. But while I wonder and search for all the reasons and factors...I at least know its true. Just today I was looking at big churches websites online in the area and I noticed many of them, though having lots of ministries for adults and children, didn't have anything for 20-somethings. I really wasn't expecting that. I figured hey, they still have the ministries even if they aren't well attended right?

Another small note I'm wrestling with that is brought up in both books is how people view the Church versus how the view Jesus.

I don't think people are closed minded to Jesus, his teachings, his message...the gospel. I think it's us. We're the turn off...the people who've given a bad image of Christianity, and who most people really want nothing to do with. (And I can hardly blame them).

I'll end with a quote:

"Jesus is more compelling than ever. More inviting, more true, more mysterious than ever. The problem isn't Jesus; the problem is what comes with JEsus. For many people the word Christian conjures up all sorts of images that have nothing to do with who Jesus is or how he taught us to live. This must change." - Velvet Elvis

Similarly, Dan Kimball talks about many interviews and conversations he had where people were really very open to Jesus...but not to Christians.

Okay so these are just some issues raised among many...and obviously not my whole thoughts on anything...but I just wanted to put it out there...I really want to find out how I can live out my faith in a uplifting way that shows Christ's love rather than causing more damage and I can see that people my age are getting turned off my my faith and I want to redeem that.

More later...

---Noelle

A Prayer

Lord guide me
Inspire me
Lead me
Show me
Work in me
And change who I am
Show me where you want me
Don't let my mind get in the way
Pierce my heart with your ways
Cover me in your peace and love
Teach me how to walk
This is the cry of my soul

Cuz everything inside me feels torn
And everything outside me seems to fall apart
My world seemed to shatter over night
And you are the only one who can truly see my heart

I hide the pain
The confusion
The mistrust
And I turn to you alone
Healer and Comfortor
Protector and Lover
Transform my ways
Give me a taste
Of being sure of that is hoped for
Certain of things unseen
Capable of once again believing in dreams

Because when all seems broken
You're the only things that left
And in my shame I refocus
Pretend its all a test

You alone Lord. You alone.
You are all I have
But you are my stability
The one who goes ahead...

Testing the Strong Ones

So...I'm very much all about finding your strength, choosing happiness and relying on God for your peace, strength and joy. I think we have a lot of power over our attitudes and our attitudes have power over our emotions.

I'm also a girl. You can't control how you feel. Right? Well it is a battle. And sometimes we lose that battle. But we can't stop fighting.

No one has to fight their battles alone however. I don't just mean God is with is. He is. And perhaps there are battles we have to fight alone. But God also encourages us to find fellowship with fellow Christians. We're the body of Christ and he intends for us to fellowship with each other to encourage one another and lift people up. We don't have to be alone.

In the past I've tended to internalize and try and handle things on my own. Mostly because I know it can take a tole on friends and I should not be dragging them down with me day after day...they need encouragement to! But there is a balance here.

This semester I've been blessed with a group of girl. Once a week we have an all girl Bible study. Having it be all girls allows us to be vulnerable, honest and transparent about our struggles with each other. I am so thankful for them. In that time...we laugh and find joy amidst pains and stress. We share our sorrows. We pray and encourage each other. We keep each other accountable. It's amazing.

I've noticed that we often have a lot of the same issues. Stress, pain, heartbreak, etc. We could easily have a weekly pity party. We could just vent and focus on our pain and problems. But we don't. Because we have a purpose.

The following is an exert from a book I'm reading about loneliness:

-Be still and know that He is God.
When you are lonely, too much stillness is exactly the thing that seems to be laying waste your soul. Use that stillness to quiet your heart before God. Get to know Him. If He is God, He is still in charge.
-Remember that you are not alone.
"The Lord, He it is that doth go with thee. He will not fail thee neither forsake thee. Be strong and of good courage." (Deut. 31:8) Jesus promised His disciples, "Lo, I am with you always." (Matt. 28:20) Never mind if you cannot feel His presence. He is there, never for one moment forgetting you.
-Give thanks.
In times of my greatest loneliness I have been lifted up by the promise of 2 Corinthians 4:17, 18, "For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, because we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen." This is something to thank God for. This loneliness itself, which seems a weight, will be far outweighed by glory.
-Refuse self-pity.
Refuse it absolutely. It is deadly thing with power to destroy you. Turn your thoughts to Christ who has already carried your griefs and sorrows.
(I agree so much with this. The second you start focusing on yourself and turn in...you only feel worse because you let your own problems consume you and you can't see the bigger picture, much less anyone else around you.)
-Accept your loneliness.
It is one stage, and only one stage, on a journey that brings you to God. It will not always last.
-Offer up your loneliness to God,
as the little boy offered to Jesus his five loaves and two fishes. God can transform it for the good of others.
(Christianity is one of the only religions that considers suffering a good thing. Our trials strengthen us and they are temporary. They help shape us into stronger better people who are more affective. No, it is not that God wants us to be in pain. He does however allow pain. He doesn't set in. He wants to see us look to him in that pain and he blesses us with strength peace and character.)
-Do something for somebody else.
No matter who or where you are, there is something you can do, somebody who needs you. Pray that you may be an instrument of God's peace, that where there is loneliness you may bring joy.

The last one is where my Bible study fits. We are all in pain. Yet, rather than dragging each other down day after day...we are lifting each other up. Though we are in pain...we can allow other people to encourage us and in return we encourage them...think of them.

I think this helps me put my own pain into perspective. If I focus on myself, I hurt myself more. I drag myself and everyone who cares about me down with me. If I realize that everyone around me is struggling to...and put my own struggles into context I realize that it my responsibility to be there for others. There is something about doing that, that makes you feel good too. You aren't focused on yourself, you realize youre not alone, and others will be there to encourage you right back.

All this to say I am thankful for these girls. And I encourage everyone to choose to think of others and be uplifting.

-Noelle

Technicolored Thoughts and Dreams

I've been thinking about the story of Joseph lately.

Does God play favorites? (Of course not.) When you read the story of Joseph do you think it IS in fact a little unfair that Joseph is treated differently then all his other brothers? If you were the brother would you resent seeing a sibling spoiled and given nice things while you were ignored. Of course you would. It's human.

Human impulses, however, are not something we're meant to live by. Did Josephs brothers have unwilling hearts to follow God? Did they focus on what they didn't have? Did they feel sorry for themselves and build up resentment?

Do you think if Josephs brothers had been actively fighting their impulses and open to what God had for them, they would have had an even bigger role, like Josephs?

Joseph was given a great responsibility. His life was not spoiled and perfect. With great reward comes great sacrifice. Willingness to follow God means willingness to surrender a mediocre "safe" life. Maybe at times admist the turmoil you wish for boring. And yet, after all the pain comes the reward...greater than anything you may have received otherwise...and with a character much stronger.

That isn't to say everyone must to be imprisoned and enslaved in order to someday rule...

The question is, are we willing to accept hardship for Him?

I think the most striking part of Josephs story was his joy. He had peace and joy in God...and trusted him completely...even when he was in prison and at the lowest point of his life.

How many of us really do this? Trust God to the point of joy amidst pain...in the midst of unfairness even. Other people manipulating you, being selfish, lying, etc. as in Josephs case.

Let me use yet another Cool Hand Luke song here:

Let me tell you what he did for me,
With the weight of my worries tearing my sleeve.
I cried to my father the other night, the end of all hope.
"Show me the rope, which way to go"
As I fell asleep, he took away my worries.
He picked me up put me on his shoulders.

I could see for miles.
He showed me that the mountain I'm climbing, is not a mountain at all, but a gentel slope leading home.

There are mountains towering ahead.
He says to me
"These are mine. Hold my hand, you'll be fine."

I could see for miles.
He showed me that the mountain I'm climbing, is not a mountain at all, but a gentle slope leading home.

"The mountains are mine."

Cool Hand Luke


So...when we find ourselves in the pain...there's so much joy we can have in that. The joy of God's trust in our strength. The joy of knowing the other side will be great. The joy that God is with us right then and there giving us peace...lifting us onto his shoulders...

Our mountains seem so significant while we're climbing them. But if we could see past them...at the bigger picture...they wouldn't seem so significant. And he never asked us to endure trial and pain alone. He's right there with us...holding our hand...suffering with us. And we can look at our mountains and hear God say "The mountains are mine."

Joseph is a great example of extreme pain and extreme blessing. But the Bible (especially the old testament) is full a sacrifices that are frankly much larger than most things we seem to be asked to give up today. Even in cases of love...Jacob worked YEARS to be with Rachel. Years. How many of us are asked to wait years? Not many. If God asked us to...would we think it was insane? Then look at Job who had his children and all his possessions taken. If we lost every one of our children and all we had...could we keep out faith? And the list goes on.

But at the end of each of these stories is Redemption. And often, unexpected and better than expected.

So in our temporary pains...we can find peace in him...but can't we also find some joy?

---Noelle

Afterthought,

It's okay to hurt and not rid yourself entirely of your hopes or the pain of submitting them to God. What would we offer as our sacrifice if we had no personal desires? It'd be easy to follow God if we had no personal feelings of our own on that matter of our lives...but we do...and the pain of giving them to God is a willing sacrifice and submission.

Trust Me.

I've always struggled with the concept of discernment. How do you truly 100% know God's speaking to you and its not your mind...OR your heart for that matter. I've seen hearing from God abused by people who are not trying to be munipulative, but genuinely believe what they are hearing is from God. And how do we as a body discern who is hearing from God and who isn't? My dad always told me take things and put them on a shelf...and if they ring true, great, and if not, fine...there's no harm done.

In other words pray and test things you're hearing from God or others are hearing from God.

I'd like to think God will not lead you astray and I've very often in the past really felt led to do something and felt it was confirmed afterwards as right. But what about when you and a friend are on two opposite ends of a situation and therefore see it completely differently? Whose right? Are we making assumptions we feel good about and therefore attributing that to God...and yet because we don't have the entire picture we can't see that they may be mislead? Is it impossible to admit mistakes even when we felt at peace about what we'd felt we were hearing?

I guess I'm frustrated because sometimes I feel untrusted. I feel like it is important to hear someone out and not assume you know what their intentions are before you make a judgement. What harm is there in knowing the intentions and then praying about them to make sure they ring true? Is it possible that if you don't do this, you're being unfair? I sometimes want to say "Don't you trust me?" Trust that if I say something is important enough to bring up, that I've put a great deal of prayer into it and tried to make sure there was no self motivation in it? Isn't is possible that I'd only risk something as important as ones trust and respect for me if I knew it was crucial...and had agonized over it?

I feel like, intent of heart and the desire to seek God is the point I'm trying to make. If I prove to be selfish again and again and miss the mark...clearly I have room to grow and should be questioned. But also I very much value my friends, fellow Christians, and other people's respect...that they would at least trust me enough to know my heart was in the right place. If they respected me that much, they'd be willing to listen / hear me out / hear what I feel like God's telling me. Then from there they could test it, pray about it, and choose to question it and disagree...or to confirm it. Either way they'd know my heart was all good intentions.

I'm sorry if this came out as a bit of a vent...I'm just really trying to stay in God's will. And I hope others can see that.

But regardless of if people can see it or not...I will always look to God for discernment and direction. I hope people will be able to see where my heart is. In Him.

Noelle

A Fellowship So Deep

I feel I'll be blogging a bit more frequently because I seem to constantly have something on my mind as of late. I bounce back and forth between hard questions I'm working through in my mind, and the simplicity of having a real relationship with Christ and others. My last post was about one of the hard questions...one of the challenges...This one is about the relationships and the encouragement I'm finding.

I've been struggling with the concept of sacrifice lately. As mentioned in earlier writings, I'd already settled the importance of giving things to God. I remember that being in God's will means that I have to deny myself daily. I am choosing to not hold onto anything. To fight selfishness. To give everything one hundred percent to my Father and find peace in that. If anything is getting in the way of my relationship with Him, I am trying to crucify it.

Resentment. Bitterness. Being angry at God.

These things are unfair. They are so self-centered and self-absorbed. I've chosen to sacrifice any urges towards these feelings to God. My very hurt, my lonliness, my desires, my anger...anything. Those very emotions can be sacrifices. I can sacrifice the urge to feel any of those things. I can choose not to.

It's funny. I know that is a hard concept to understand. Emotions seem like something you just feel, and can't help. And in many ways you cannot help how you feel. But I do believe if we choose to give something over to God we can actively fight those urges, and sacrifice them to God, we'll find a peace in letting go. Holding onto our pain, our resentment etc...it's so tempting. It's so easy. It is ridiculously hard to let go. But if you truly want to...ask Him and He'll show you how.

This is about our relationship with God. Focusing on our circumstances...dwelling on the unfairness of things we don't quite understand, all these things inhibit closeness with our Father. They consume our minds and hearts so that there is not a whole lot of room left for God. But he wants us to rely on him alone. To find peace and contentment in Him alone. And he will help us there!

Lately I've been trying to put this into practice.

I've found that it is so easy to dwell on things that I don't understand, that don't seem fair to me. I know that God must have a plan, but because I can't see the big picture I am fighting emotional turmoils. By truly letting go and giving things to God...I am promising to put thoughts like these out of my mind. Not to just trust him through it...but to truly give it over to him and not worry about it.

In practice...easier said than done. But so possible.

I had a few strong days where I did not think about the things outside of my control that were hard. Then last night I found myself very discouraged. Praying, talking about it, nothing really helped, I was just low as the reality of things sunk in. It all seemed so unfair. And I had those emotions to deal with. The were surpressed to an extent but lingered well into today. I know that God knows my strength...and has trusted me with a sacrifice he knows I can handle and I will come out even stronger for having endured. And He is there reminding me. When He sees that I am trying hard He is there pushing me.

God is timely.

As I sat in Koinonia tonight there was a battle in my mind. I was struggling. Battling the urge to be upset or angry. Pushing it back...over and over. Again. Again. I feel like God sees and acknowledges that kind of effort. He knows how hard I am trying. He gave me just what I needed at that moment. A friend came up to me and asked me to pray with them. And even though I had talked to people the night before and been praying all day...this specific friend happened to be exactly what I needed right then.

Encouragment and prayer were given. And also I regained perspective as I prayed for him in return. I remembered my role in being an encouragement for him. I realized how important encouragement is. I reminded him his value in Christ. And because of that I remembered mine. And shortly there after a song came on entitled Fellowship So Deep. It said

We can feel his love among us; We can sing redemptions song
We can hear the Spirit call us to a place where we belong
For His joy is in our laughter and His comfort in our grief
Let His love here ever after be the language that we speak

Let us sing of our Redeemer and of His love that made us free
And know this gift is ours forever, a fellowship so deep

It was a timely reminder of my relationship with Him. It's a gift. It's not obligation. We choose to have it, and anyone can. It is vital. It is where we find true joy and comfort. And if we choose it, it is ours forever.

That relationship is far more valuable than anything I may desire. And it is a true source of joy and peace. It is difficult to be willing to focus on God and not myself. And it is not always easy to be willing to let go of everything in exchange for that depth of relationship with Him. At times this relationship feels hard...Because if I truly desire that depth with Him I have to be willing to make sacrifices. Sacrifice things that inhibit it. And though that may be difficult...the relationship with him should be an easy one. Comfortable. Peaceful.

It's funny how hard it is to choose peace when it's all you really want. But in many ways it is a choice. The only true peace comes from God.

I should probably be grateful...thankful...excited that God thinks enough of me to know I can handle trials. I know by making the choice to rely on Him I'm growing as a person and in relationship with Him. I'll come out of all of this strengthened and blessed.

By trusting Him for that outcome I'm choosing some temporary pain. (I'm accepting the challenge.) I could easily choose to be selfish and focus on myself and how unfair God is. But I suppose He knew that I'd choose the right thing no matter how hard...and because of that choice...the end result will be amazing.

:-) Choose joy and peace. No matter how hard it is. Value your relationship with Christ. Sacrifice self-centeredness to Him and just trust Him in faith. He will see your efforts and help you along the way, but attitude is so important. Choose Him.

-Noelle <3

Whose afraid of the Post Modern???

(This is very long, and all other the place. Not incredibly scholarly. But it's just some random thoughts on my mind today, greatly due to a lecture by Dr. Case. I haven't really hashed them all out yet so don't take this as my final word haha, it's just questions really.)

In past eras, brilliant minds could spend their whole lives developing ideas and picking apart theories. Now it’s hard to keep up as technology and philosophies change rapidly. And it’s scary isn’t it? Everything you produce, buy, write about, etc will be outdated in a matter of months. Traditional conservative Christians see these fast changes (especially in thought) as absolutely detrimental, new, and against everything they stand for. The big scary word that gets dropped often is “post-modernism.” Oh the evils the word implies.

It seems to me that Christians especially, but much of western culture in general, have a tendency towards “bumper sticker” critiques. Christians are notorious for taking things out of context and boycotting. I’m going to admit right here and now that I find this embarrassing.

I know that with so many disciplines…history, philosophy, politics, music, cultural phenomenon…it is nearly impossible to keep up. You almost have to pick one or two and focus on them because there is too much to know. Unlike earlier generations, we live in a world where we are building upon accumulative knowledge. We take for granted hundreds of years of learning that is our foundation for expanse.

But Americans especially are very individualistic and rarely want to put the energy into gaining a whole picture. Evangelicals can be even worse sometimes because they view knowledge and questioning, new ideas, other opinions as threatening.

Post modernism is not new.

Christians associate post modernism with being counter cultural and rejecting truth. “Truth” is such a hot button word with Christians. Everyone seems to think that in postmodernity there is complete rejection of truth. Also we seem to think truth is completely accessible and anyone who thinks differently is outside of the truth. And be cause of this post modern thought is scary.

Let me clarify a few things then I’ll get to the point.

Post modernism is not a school of thought. It’s just what we call a cultural shift that we noticed and are trying to understand.

Second of all. It’s not new. It is more or less hyper-modern. The whole modern age has been defined by throwing out dogmatism and authoritarianism. It’s the great “Awakening,” the Englightenment, Romanticism, the idea of progress that is so very engrained into our minds and culture. It is continually moving…

Also what I mean by “bumper sticker” critiques: This expression is used by James K. A. Smith in a book entitled Who’s afraid of Postmodernism? I don’t know how I feel about the entire book just yet, but I like this point.

(Sidebar: I'm not saying I expect everyone to have read everything. I'm just saying, what's wrong with saying "I don't know?" about something you haven't read up on. You can then choose to read up on it...or just admit youre not that interested and don't have the right to a solid opinion on it (rather than taking someone elses word for what it says.))

Do you see the problem? We rarely take the time to question and truly get the whole picture.

If we choose to be afraid of post modern ideas and throw them all out…we miss the possible benefits AND we do not intelligently really understand the big picture.

Postmodernism is not a rejection of truth. If you took time to read books by post-modern theorists it would be impossible to come to this conclusion. In fact this is a common misconception among Christians. It’s not fair to take someone else’s word as gospel on anything. It’s not smart. I find that Christian leaders are more concerned with warnings then they are with encouraging full understanding of an issue.

Post modernism at the core is the recognition of limits. And I fail to see why this is so bad. It is not a rejection of truth. It is acknowledgement of the limits of human understanding of the truth. It is not saying truth doesn’t matter but it is dealing with some issues I would like to see dealt with among Christians.

We need to acknowledge out limits.

We do not have to say there is no reality. But we should admit that our perspectives are always shaped by our situatedness. Your knowing is always limited to some degree. It’s limited by things like your class, your race, your place in the world, the time period you live in, your religion, etc. Those things predispositions should be considered. Our place in life will alter and influence our realities and opinions.

In Christian apologetics you find that truth claims have to be made differently varying from culture to culture. Because cultures are all different, and have different ways of viewing reality. It doesn’t discredit truth. But it does change how you understand it and how you go about imparting it.

Diversity in belief is not new. Doctrinal differences are not terrible. For over 500 years now, protestant Christians have been divided by doctrinal differences. At some point why can’t we say “I don’t know” or live with the differences? They simply divide the body of Christ. It’s not about ever stopping the seeking of truth, or saying it is relativistic. It’s about whether or not it is important to divide over things that are not critical, do not have easy answers, and may never have a consensus.

We can’t stop discussion. Instead we should be willing to dicuss, to disagree, and to gain knowledge. If we are truly being intelligent in our pursuit we shouldn’t be afraid of different ideas than our own. We should learn about them and sift out the value in them.

Of course there will be truth and falsehood in every view. It would be a little egotistical to assume you have everything right and no room to grow. Even amongst postmodern theorists, or among the romantics, there will be silliness and truth and variations of opinion.

My problem is that conservatism refuses to recognize limits. And therefore there is no willingless to dialogue.

And how do you handle “otherness” ?

If you cannot convert someone to think the way you do…then what?

Do you accuse them of heresy?

Do you legislate things to make their life harder?

What do you do when you cannot agree, with those people??

These are just questions.

I just want to encourage everyone to be openminded and intelligent in their pursuit of truth. It has nothing to do with bending to culture or being relativistic. But if you are going to discuss things with people…be smart about it! Actually do the research from every angle. Don’t take anyone else’s word as gospel. Acknowledge that there are biases. Be willing to stretch yourself.

In the end we are called to love others. We are also encouraged to find humility. Don’t be too proud to disagree with others and be okay with that. Love them anyway. Recognize that you may have things wrong that they have right, and vice versa. Be at least willing to actually hear what they have to say. Question your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with questioning. If you have faith. You have nothing to fear in understanding other opinions outside your own.

Don’t be afraid of different opinions. And don’t accept “bumper sticker” critiques.

Above all, be open and love others.